What is the importance for Unilever of intrapreneurship? How does Unilever handle the Not-Invented-Here syndrome?

In a big company inevitably (Unilever has more than 200,000 people), it's possible to be at the center of that and be surrounded by so much that you can't see the world. Being big is something you have to manage well to prevent yourself from just being tied up and internally focused. Next to that, because you're big, then certainly in your key areas you have really great experts. Many of those experts are some of the best people in the world, in their respective areas, and very well respected outside the company. If an idea comes up or if a technology becomes available, you want to go to your leading expert to ask the question: do we need this? But if that leading expert is already one of the greatest experts in the world in that topic, then probably, they're ahead of the game and there's actually nobody else around who can judge. So there is a danger that this wonderful phenomenon called not invented here can crop up. That's inevitable. And I think again P&G said the same thing: it's just too easy as a reflex to reject stuff that other people are doing. "How can that one man working in his garage behind his house have a better idea than I do? I am the leading player in this field – how is that possible?" The problem is that in so doing you start to shut your eyes for the capabilities of others. Then, in the end you just remain good at what you can do now, but you never go beyond that. I think there is in every company, in every culture, the problem of not invented here, actually it's got a lot to do with human pride: "I am proud of being good, therefore how can you be better?"

But I think life is a learning process, and although it's hard to say on a scale from 1 – 10 where Unilever sits on that scale of being externally oriented versus being internally oriented, we're certainly not the worst. And there are people within the company who are very highly externally oriented which is wonderful and you see the results, but there's no doubt that we can do more. And there's no doubt that as a result we'll be better.

How does Unilever motivate its employees to become more externally oriented?

I think there's a combination of exposing people and making sure people get exposed to what's going on outside the company. There's a quite conscious effort to make sure people see the things that are happening outside. That's one thing. And of course people who do then themselves have an externally oriented mindset will pick up very strongly on the signals and start to do something with them. On top of that, clearly there are ways of making it more concrete in people's targets to force the issue by actually saying: "I'm sorry but it's now part of your job to have thoroughly looked outside before you decide to do something inside". So you can actually force the issue. Of course the ultimate measure would be to take away the internal resources, but my personal believe is that that's not the right way forward, because first of all you create negative energy, which shouldn't be there. Secondly, there is a great deal of skill involved in choosing which external capability is the right one for you and how do you do that without people who are leading edge in the field? Hence, in my opinion, what's happening is that the roles shift from being internally focused to more externally focused and I suppose the word you would look for is "brokerage". People would now be not only great in their technology area, but being great at brokering external technology that they understand into the company. I think that's a shift. If I were to give you a mental model I would say instead of being at the center of Unilever looking out and being surrounded by Unilever so it's tough to see the outside world, we want to put people on the periphery of Unilever so they can always see the outside world but can also always look in to see Unilever and they can therefore be the bridge in both directions.

If you put people on the periphery of Unilever, how do you manage the balance between being connected to Unilever on the one hand and looking outside on the other hand?

I don't see a conflict there. What I see is that your job is to find the best technology there is, relevant to Unilever's brands and innovation plans, and to find the best way of bringing that to Unilever. Sometimes the best technology there is can be found in your own research lab, sometimes not. The key point is when you choose for the technology that comes from the inside to be doing that conscious of which alternatives there were outside. And not just to be doing because that's what we do; that's not good enough. I think that's the point. Essentially, what you're doing, is saying: "I insist on being benchmarked versus external standards and I will take the best I can find and not just the one that happens to be internal". The other point, is that if there's technology available out there, and I choose not to incorporate it because it's not as good as what I have then I am not at a competitive disadvantage, because what I had was better. But if I choose not to take it because I didn't look, then it could easily be the case that I am at a competitive disadvantage in the market, because I will launch a product pointing in a given direction, with given functionality, and somebody else can then easily acquire better technology outside and beat me in the marketplace. Therefore, a fundamental matter of being the best, being cutting edge with your products, is that you are choosing the best technology – wherever it comes from.

Are these technologies always available?

Sometimes they are, sometimes you're looking for someone who has the knowledge to develop the technology with you. What you recognize in a partner might sometimes be their skills, rather than the thing they have already achieved. And if those skills are highly relevant to what you yourself want to achieve then you might be able to find a way of working together to deliver.

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